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View Full Version : continuos crystal shrimp deaths :(....



kwheeler91
04-30-2010, 01:38 PM
over the last few days i have been finding 1-2 dead shrimp a day for a reason i cannot figure out. the shrimp have been doing fine for almost a year now and have bred many times, but now all of a sudden they have been dropping like flies. i have done 2 50% water changes since this started happening and have cleaned the filter sponge very well.... the tank is a twenty hex with some rotala, a few crypts, frogbit, and riccia growing in the filter. i know its not underfiltered as i have had much more fish in the tank before with no problems... water 7-ish +/-.... temp 76, nitrates cant be too high although i havent tested. it looks like they are dying after the molt, but i dont know why. the meanest fish in the tank is a little scarlet badis, which is no bigger than a shrimp, and a single male feeder guppy. the only other inhabitants are two ottos and about 10 CPD's.
anyone have any ideas or similar experiences? ive already lost about 8 shrimp and need not lose anymore. i think all my females may be gone, as i had 5 out six confirmed females in jars with babies, neglected them due to lack of time, and lost 2 plus all the babies, so i need some help quick before its too late.

kush
04-30-2010, 01:59 PM
What is your water source? If it is municipal, check with the town to see if they've been flushing mains or putzing with their water. In my town, for example, the water department aims to deliver water to my tap dead-neutral-KH 0 and will change chemicals depending on time of year or the well they're drawing from. But that's your least likely problem.

Try not to do massive water changes on shrimp tanks (that's the exact opposite of the advice I give for every other problem) especially if you haven't matched temperature or checked hardness. Test KH from the tap and in the tank. If its really low, crank it up with some baking soda or crushed coral.

I dose all my invertebrate tanks with marine iodine at a rate of 1 tsp per 100 gallons monthly to keep their shells healthy.

Or your shrimp may be old. I doubt many shrimp die of old age in the wild.

kwheeler91
04-30-2010, 09:38 PM
well i did a another water change today before work and none have died since then, so hopefully it was a water quality issue... i thought it miht be old age at first, but i have lost more shrimp than i originally had.

not sure but hopefully it has stopped

doctorgori
05-01-2010, 01:55 AM
What is your water source? If it is municipal, check with the town to see if they've been flushing mains or putzing with their water. In my town, for example, the water department aims to deliver water to my tap dead-neutral-KH 0 and will change chemicals depending on time of year or the well they're drawing from. But that's your least likely problem.

Try not to do massive water changes on shrimp tanks (that's the exact opposite of the advice I give for every other problem) especially if you haven't matched temperature or checked hardness. Test KH from the tap and in the tank. If its really low, crank it up with some baking soda or crushed coral.

I dose all my invertebrate tanks with marine iodine at a rate of 1 tsp per 100 gallons monthly to keep their shells healthy.

Or your shrimp may be old. I doubt many shrimp die of old age in the wild.
yup...cound't have said it better...also chk for heavy metals, accidental copper, et...

kwheeler91
05-02-2010, 08:43 AM
well i found two more dead this morning.... i cant be nitrates, ive done enough water changes to eliminate that problem... i dont think it is copper or anything like that becuase my cherries are doing fine, as are my dwarf loaches and hillstream loaches and clowns. i still think it has something to do with their molting, its like they die right after they as i have found them half out of their skin 2-3 times now. is it possible that the fish are picking at them and killing them when they are still soft? they have driftwood to hide under and plants to hide in but i dont know what else it could be, they have been fine for months now and were breeding like bunnies but now they are droppin like flies...

kush
05-02-2010, 09:24 AM
I've got two words for you: iodine, calcium.

http://www.azgardens.com/p-221-iodine-kent-iodine.aspx

MonkeyDance73
05-02-2010, 10:57 AM
I've got two words for you: iodine, calcium.

http://www.azgardens.com/p-221-iodine-kent-iodine.aspx
4 words: Don't buy from azgardens.

http://davesgarden.com/products/gwd/c/63/

http://www.bbb.org/tucson/business-reviews/nurseries-plants-trees-etc/arizona-aquatic-gardens-in-oro-valley-az-4000548

:grin:

kush
05-02-2010, 11:20 AM
Oh, you won't get any argument from me on that score. (Always nice to meet someone else who's been screwed by AAG).

Actually, you can pick up a bottle of iodine at any LFS. And should.

marli
05-02-2010, 11:35 AM
well i found two more dead this morning.... i cant be nitrates, ive done enough water changes to eliminate that problem... i dont think it is copper or anything like that becuase my cherries are doing fine, as are my dwarf loaches and hillstream loaches and clowns. i still think it has something to do with their molting, its like they die right after they as i have found them half out of their skin 2-3 times now. is it possible that the fish are picking at them and killing them when they are still soft? they have driftwood to hide under and plants to hide in but i dont know what else it could be, they have been fine for months now and were breeding like bunnies but now they are droppin like flies...
Heck, I've got lots of words, but mostly I'm just wondering: Do you REALLY have those shrimp in with those fish??

dwarf loaches and hillstream loaches and clowns.
I can't imagine any shrimp living for long in my clown loach tank. Just a thought, if you really do have them in with those fish. Good luck.

Smiles, marli

kwheeler91
05-02-2010, 12:29 PM
lol do you really think im that i would do such a thing?! if you read earlier in the post i list the inhabitants, but i just meant they all get the same water. my water is very hard as it is... not sure where to get iodine, not much for lfs around here, especially ones that know anything about inverts.

thorny
05-02-2010, 12:42 PM
Iodine and liquid Baby Vitamins can be found at any drugstore or even the soul sucker Walmart

kush
05-02-2010, 01:19 PM
... not sure where to get iodine, not much for lfs around here, especially ones that know anything about inverts.
Its common marine iodine, like you'd use in any saltwater setup. Using it for inverts is an 'off-label' application the LFS folk don't need to know about.

I wouldn't hesitate to use drugstore iodine except that I don't know what concentration it is or if they put stuff in it - marine iodine is clear and medicinal iodine is sicky-orange. (At least it was when I was a kid).

marli
05-02-2010, 02:02 PM
lol do you really think im that i would do such a thing?! if you read earlier in the post i list the inhabitants, but i just meant they all get the same water. my water is very hard as it is... not sure where to get iodine, not much for lfs around here, especially ones that know anything about inverts.
I hope I didn't offend ya, cause it wasn't my intent, but you'd be surprised at some of the things I've heard! I did read earlier, it just wasn't clear (to me, at least) that they weren't all in the same tank.

Anyhow, good luck. I hope you can figure it out. I never could; all my crystals died, similarly to yours, one at a time. Cherries were fine, so I skip the crystals now. Too expensive for me to kill!

Smiles, marli

kwheeler91
05-02-2010, 08:11 PM
haha no offense taken, i know that some people do things like that... anyway i have raised two successful generations of crystals to adulthood, i jsut dont see a decifiency being a problem since my original shrimp never had any trouble, nor did the two successive generations reaching adulthood, its just now starting to happen for a reason i cannot ascertain.... ill try the iodine if i can find some that aint to pricy, at least give it a shot anyway before i lose all 50 of them.

kwheeler91
05-03-2010, 08:17 AM
7 more shrimp just last night... i dont if it means anything but it seems like it only happens at night

kush
05-03-2010, 08:25 AM
O2 levels? Try running bubbles at night? Its the only thing that comes to mind.

kwheeler91
05-03-2010, 11:23 AM
thats kinda what i was thinking... maybe the plants make enough during the day but at night they get starved out... could it be that the plants are using the co2 put of by the fish and shrimp during the day but at the decreased o2 and increased co2 is causing a ph swing?

kwheeler91
05-03-2010, 05:50 PM
ok i actually witnessed one of the deaths just a little bit ago... the shrimp started laying on its side and it looked like its gills were pumping at hyper speed... it could still move a little but was obviously going out, so i made him into a dempsey snack. oh well, i guess it just wasnt meant to be. maybe ill try again in a few years, or just keeping working towards my giant native dream tank and say forget all this sensitive little forgein crap and go catch whatever i want to like i did today with a cast net and forgo all the disappointment from the death of inbred shrimp that are more trouble than they are worth.


thanks anyway for the help and advice

rbeauchemin
10-24-2010, 03:54 AM
I know this post is old but crystals were my first shrimp and I've had a good bit of success with them so I thought I would throw in my 2 cents (or less !) to help anyone who might be poking about the internet. This is all just opinions! But, they come from actual trial and error and observation, not just some copy-pasted bs that I just googled.

1. They like it cold. You may have read this, I concur. I keep mine at 68-70. I experimented with this by changing the temp by two degrees and leaving it for a week. Colder, and they turn into zombies, warmer, they lose their color and also become sluggish.

2. Alkaline I read almost everywhere that they like it acidic, so I followed the advice. Activity was low, and I was concerned. They perked up with water changes, so I scrounged the internet and found a blog of someone actually keeping keeping them, who said alkaline, so I tried it. They were zipping around like crazy. I don't recommend going too low, since I read that it's bad for their exoskeletons, and it sounds logical. I keep mine at 6.5 pH, which I hit by simply adding a bit of CO2 and some oak leaves.

3. Hard water These guys molt, and need minerals to do so, so why deprive them of it? Also, it helps stabilize the pH.

4. Oxygen! Lots of folks raise these guys with foam filters, and the expert opinion is that oxygenates the water enough. I disagree, although I may be incorrect, but I think a good splashing or swiftly moving current is important for the water at lower levels to turn over and also be oxygenated. To demonstrate, put a tiny and very light object at the bottom of your tank, like a scrap of sponge or a leaf or bit of paper. If it's not moving, or only swaying slightly, I don't feel that this is good enough. They often hang out near the bottom and they need lots of oxygen, just like crayfish from fast-moving streams. I'm personally fond of HOB filters, but do what you like - just turn it over!

5. Water changes So I had a fungal infection in another shrimp tank, and started undertaking 80% daily water changes to clear it up. Then I noticed how the population exploded. So I tried it on the crystals - same effect. Although the water parameters of the tank they were in were very nice and stable, they seemed truly grateful for the water changes. So, no offense Kush, but I disagree - I think the more often and bigger the water change, for these guys, the better. Also, it helps introduce more oxygen into the water and may even replace a splashing filter if you do it often enough, although I haven't tested the theory. Also, although I prefer to keep shrimp in large tanks because they are more stable, changing lots of water often will help their health if you keep them in a small amount of water.

6. Current They like a good current - which also helps with the water turnover. Plus, a good current helps get crud to your filters instead of settling on the bottom, which is always nice!

7. Light So one of my lights on another tank went out one day, and while I was waiting for a replacement, I stole the light from my crystal tank because they have low light plants and the tank with the broken light had high light plants, and I figured that the shrimp tank got enough indirect sunlight where it is for the plants to hang on for a few days. The shrimp, on the other hand, were miserable, I could hardly find any and food was being uneaten. Put the light back on them, and within an hour they were practically gleeful. I don't know why, exactly, although I know we need sunlight to process calcium, because of the Vitamin D provided. Perhaps it's the same thing? I just know they need a good light.

8. Food variety These guys, as detritus feeders, are probably not too picky, but I think they need to eat more than just canned green beans and flake food bits. A bit of frozen blood worms or freeze-dried-protein-buggy-something will be ravenously eaten up. I also have spinach pellets that cause that 'feeding frenzy' we're always reading about. Change it up - make sure they get nice veggies and don't forget some good protein too. Besides, if I had to live off of canned green beans I'd slap someone. Maybe everyone. And I doubt that canned green beans have every single vitamin and nutrient they need, so a variety is your best bet to make sure they get everything.

9. Plants Duh.

10. Snails Ok, laugh. But snails have great poop which kicks of infusoria, which the shrimp love, and they like to ride on the snails. They are great tank mates and think they are a vital one.

11. Don't overfeed If a food is not gone in an hour, it was too much. Remove it promptly by siphon or gravel sucker, and feed less next time. I feed mine every other day, and figure the rest of the time tank crud and snail-poop bugs and oak leaf bugs are plenty - they're zipping around eating something!

Keep an eye out for fungus. I think the low temps and high number/amount of water changes should help prevent this, but it's hard to spot and may result in unexplained deaths. The tank it happened in was getting weekly water changes of about 30-40% and was at 78F (different shrimp). Look carefully at the shrimp - when my other ones had fungus it looked like a little bit of slime between their eyes. Remove fungus infected shrimp RIGHT AWAY and undertake massive water changes. I haven't found that salt helps this situation, and I'm personally hesitant to add chemicals to my tanks.




Like I said, just my opinions, wish the best of luck to anyone keeping these shrimpies!



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